Strong woman Eve, ambitious lawyer, mother and caregiver about her challenges

 

Discover Eve's favorite outfits here .

 

Annemie : Hello Eve

Eve : Hello Annemie

Annemie : Hi Eve, you're a very successful woman, and like so many powerful, successful women, we don't really know what's behind that? What kind of life they've led? Because you've certainly been through some tough times. You didn't have a straightforward childhood, and at 14, you were already pleading in court yourself. What happened?

Eve : Right. Um, my mother and I, that's always been a difficult relationship. And I ran away from home.

Annemie : How old were you then?

Eve : I was 14.

Annemie : Really, a teenager who says "I'm leaving"?

Eve : Yes, indeed. And in court, that was also the first time I pleaded. And I really pleaded for my life. I had to explain what was going on and why I had left. I remember that very well; I felt nervous and small. And it was such a large and imposing building. The judge looked so stern. My mother had lawyers. So that was a very tense moment. And then I stood up, took a step, and took a deep breath. And then I started telling my story. And that was a kind of primal force . And actually, that ritual is what I continued to do, even when I had to go to court later.

Annemie : Yes, because you are, for those who don't know, a lawyer. You're also a lawyer. You argue in court. So that's become your profession. But it's still quite special that as a 14-year-old girl, you have to argue for yourself.

Eve: Yes, I did have a pro bono lawyer, that's true. But at one point, the judge also asked to hear me. And then I realized, "Now I have to tell her, and it's make or break." And I remember clearly, I just kept talking straight through. And at the end, the judge looked at me; it was an older woman. Our eyes met, and there was such a motherly warmth in it.

And then I knew, "It's okay." And after that, I thought to myself, "If I can do this, I can do anything." And that really became the common thread throughout my life.

Annemie : Yes, what happened to you then? You left home, but where does a 14-year-old girl end up then?

Eve: Then I was placed in a shelter.

Annemie : Yes, and what memories do you have of that period?

Eve : That was a very difficult period.

Annemie : Yes, because you didn't just go to paradise.

Eve : No, you end up in very difficult circumstances there, with all these young people you don't know. Essentially, your whole life, your home, everything you knew, is gone. Because that's what finally happened to me. The shelter was in Leuven, and I asked if I could go back to my school in Lier. Because that's where my life was.

Annemie : That was your anchor.

Eve : That was my anchor. I still had people and friends there. That ultimately led to me meeting a cousin on the train. Which also led to reconnecting with my paternal grandparents. And that's how I became a foster child with my grandparents. That was my salvation.

Annemie : Yes?

Eve : Yes, because in that shelter, you're surrounded by young people, each with their own problems. Every young person has their own story.

I think it's also very unfair that, of all the young people who were there, I'm the only one who landed on her feet. {..}

Annemie : So you had a rough start in life. And then you started putting yourself out there, you started studying.

Eve : Yes, that's right, I first studied criminology and then I did law.

Annemie : Yes, you worked hard, but you also achieved good results. You've achieved excellent results.

Eve : Yes, I always had the highest honors. That came very naturally to me. Law is a very logical system for me. Once you understand that, it becomes very logical.

Annemie : So that's how you really put yourself on the map. You gave yourself a good start. And then?

Ev e: Um... On At one point, I got a phone call. It was my best friend, and he'd been in a car accident. The message was literally, "If you want to see Stefaan alive, you have to be here within 24 hours."

Annemie : You got that message in Flanders?

Eve : Yes, I got that message from his mother. That was difficult, of course. I didn't have a passport, so I wondered how I was going to get there within 24 hours? I was here, he was in America.

Annemie : But you were determined to go there. You wanted to go?

Eve : I knew, even though I didn't know why at the time, I knew I had to go there. And finally, I succeeded. I remember at 5:55, I called someone to register my humanitarian passport, and she said, "Yes, we'll be open again tomorrow." And I replied, "That's not possible, I only have 24 hours." I explained my situation first, and she said, "I'm waiting for you, come here, I'll wait for you." And throughout that whole experience, I occasionally ran into people like that, and you need that; otherwise, you can't get there. I wasn't there within 24 hours, but within 48. And for me, it felt like, "I get on a plane and I enter a different world."

Stefaan had a brain injury, a coma, so that was a really difficult story. We were then taken by air ambulance... It was a terribly small plane; it didn't even have a toilet, and we had to cross the ocean in it. So that was a truly surreal moment.

Anne mie : Yes, but do you mean to say that you took him to Belgium?

Eve : Yes, he was Belgian..

Annemie: Yes, so suddenly, you were responsible for him?

Eve : Yes, but I didn't know that at the time. After a month, he was allowed to go home, and in a coma like that, patients shouldn't receive too much stimulation. And the doctors quickly noticed that when I was there and I talked to him, the pressure eased. So I felt he needed me at that moment.

Annemie : So that story actually takes off with you, and you bring it back to Flanders? And then?

Eve : And then he started a rigorous rehabilitation program. First, he was in a rehabilitation center. Then, at one point, he was allowed to go on a weekend trip, and they said, "Yes, take him along."

And then he was allowed to become an outpatient and he came with me, even though I was a student and literally living in student digs.

Annemie : So, am I understanding correctly that you're saying you almost became a caregiver? Without realizing it, you took that man under your wing?

Eve : I fell into that trap. I was in my early twenties, so I didn't know what was happening. At that point, I didn't know what I was getting into, so I also didn't know what would happen a month or a year later. And the authorities went along with it. No one sat down for half an hour or even an hour to talk it through with me. Like, "Do you understand what the responsibility is, what's happening, and which authorities you can contact?" I assumed, we're in Belgium, everything will be fine.

Annemie : So you didn't actually know that at that moment, by speaking from your heart, you were taking on that responsibility for someone who was in need of care?

Eve : Yes, that's right. At that moment, there wasn't anything that was supposed to happen. There was a period when he was in a wheelchair, when he couldn't speak... Well, right now, he's speaking, he's doing everything he couldn't do.

Annemie : Is he still under your protection?

Eve : Yes, I'm still his caregiver.

Annemie : So that has had an incredible impact on your life?

Eve : Yes, yes, of course. But in a good way. Well, in both directions. In the sense that it also shaped me as a person. You learn skills and abilities from it. And the world would genuinely be a better place if we always helped each other and moved away from that individualistic mindset. But that doesn't change the fact that some things definitely could and should have been done better.

Annemie : Because you were still very young? How old were you when you started providing care?

Eve : Well, I was in my early twenties. Because I remember I'd just started law school back then. So I must have been 22. And officially, I was an adult, of course, but I don't think you can estimate the consequences of that decision at 22. Even at 40, you can't know that, but I was also in a completely different situation. I was studying, so he didn't have any income at the time either. That was just one of the flaws in the whole system.

I then resumed my studies as a working student, while also becoming a caregiver. And then I graduated with high honors. Everyone focuses on that degree, while it was the context in which I did it that made me say, "I did it anyway."

Annemie : Yes, you really excelled yourself. Were you proud of yourself?

Eve : Yeah, I do.

Annemie : That's allowed.

Eve : No, there's nothing wrong with that;

Annemie : That's certainly a story that could be a book. Because some very difficult things have happened to you. For example, you also lost a child.

Eve : Yes, that was definitely a difficult experience. I remember when I was pregnant, I saw them walking around. That was also because of Stefaan's story, several things in my life had been postponed. And then I was pregnant, and it was a girl, and everything seemed to be going well. Wow, I was on cloud nine, I was so happy.

And then suddenly, abruptly, it all goes wrong. My heart shattered into a thousand pieces, which I honestly didn't know... You're dealing with so much grief, and such intense grief, that you really think, will my heart ever feel this broken again?

Annemie : Will it ever heal?

Eve : Yes. And at the same time, I also... Well, I planted fruit trees in the garden. Symbols became very important to me then.

Annemie : And what did those fruit trees represent?

Eve : So that... One, the fruit trees would grow together with the baby, but she wouldn't be around anymore. And I had this idea that if she has brothers or sisters later, they'll pick fruit from their sister's tree. And that's indeed the case now, so those are the things I get a lot out of. And then I also felt like, now I have to live for the two of us.

So on the one hand, you feel a heartbreaking sadness at such a moment, and at the same time, you think, I had a life she wasn't meant to have. So I had to embrace my life and I thought, "Now I have to live for the two of us; I owe it to her." She never lived on earth, only in my womb. And I still carry a piece of her with me; we live together now. Yes, she is a part of me.

Annemie : So you've continued to carry that with you in some way. And Eve, how does one get over all that? You radiate, you have energy. You've also gone much further professionally, you've even done some really amazing things.

Eve : Yes, I actually started training at various business schools a few years ago. And that was out of necessity. The idea that something could be different here, something had to be different here. That was a hunger for something. And I started at Oxford.

Annemie: Oxford , that's really high-end.

Eve : Yes, indeed, haha. But that was really just the beginning, because then I went to Harvard , Kellogg's , and then Stanford .

Annemie : And how did you start aiming so high, what drove you?

Eve : Well, I think. Oxford was actually a no-brainer. When I was a teenager, I went there once, and I had this strong feeling of, "This is where I'm going to study."

But who wouldn't? And then, because of Stefaan's story, my dream of studying abroad was, of course, put on hold. At that time, I was in my caregiving role; I was already happy with the context I had. And that was a long time ago, until a few years ago. Then I came across a program and thought, I want to do this! And everyone around me said, "But that's not relevant for a lawyer at all, what are you going to do with it?"

But I wanted to do it anyway, and I did. And that was a real revelation. I thought, "How, it's not relevant, this is what we need." And then I felt the hunger for more, and I thought, "I need that, and that, and that too." And so it became a journey. That wasn't the initial intention, but it has become that.

Annemie : And what are you now, since you've left the legal profession behind you?

Eve: Yes and no. My great passion is adapting the entire justice system. Transforming it, making it evolve, so that it becomes a high-performing system. That's one of the things I'm working very hard on, and also with organizations in general. Work is such an important part of our lives; it's so crucial that people feel good about their work. And that's become my passion. Truly transforming those organizations, companies, institutions, law firms, so that they become high-performing systems for the people who work in them and, consequently, for the system itself.

Annemie : What you want to do with your business now is essentially what you've done with your own life. To navigate all the difficulties and responsibilities, you've continued to take care of yourself and fully developed yourself. What makes this possible despite the rather intense things you've experienced?

Eve : Well, it's a couple of different things. One, if a month is too much, you reframe it to a week. And if a week is too much, you reframe it to a day. And if a day is too much, you reframe it to an hour. Step by step.

Annemie : So you try to make the difficult things smaller.

Eve : Yes, very often we turn something small into something big. I could never afford that; I couldn't afford to turn something small into something big. So I had to reframe to turn something big into something small. With small steps, you make it manageable, and that's where you find quick wins, that's where you find courage.

What I've always found so rewarding was asking myself, "What do I need?" What you need will be different for everyone.

Annemie : What did you need? What does Eve need when life gets really hard?

Eve : Friendship. People who are genuine. Yes, I think we've become very much an individualistic society these days, where it's every man for himself. And it can really make a world of difference to just give someone that little bit of support. And the great thing about that is that we get a lot of satisfaction from it ourselves. Research shows that too. And just as people, connecting with others. Instead of just focusing on our own interests.

Annemie : Giving is receiving, and receiving is giving. That's actually one movement.

Eve : Yes, and we've sometimes lost that a bit. And that has an impact. If you look at organizational cultures, we've sometimes strayed a bit.

Annemie : Yes. But with the difficult things in your life, what keeps you going? What keeps you going? Is that also a characteristic?

Eve : Yeah, keep going, haha. I also think that certain character traits aren't developed in a golden basket. If you're talking about character traits like resilience, empathy, selflessness. Those are the kinds of skills you develop along the way, through your experiences. By running into something and recovering.

Annemie : So you're saying you don't grow in a golden basket. What you really mean is that a hard learning experience can be a really hard learning experience.

Eve : Yes, absolutely. We often focus too much on... When we look at success, we see that superficial layer. While we often don't see people who have had a completely different path as success, they possess so many competencies because of how life has shaped them. And we need to pay attention to that.

Annemie : Yes, you're one of those people yourself: highly educated, with titles, major universities, successful. But you can't really see where the pain and sadness lies in someone. We often assume that successful people are very happy, and also people who have had it very easy.

Eve : I don't think that's often the case. It depends: what is success?

But I think that to be successful, you need perseverance. And perseverance is often cultivated by facing the inevitable setbacks. So success isn't defined by a title. Success is defined by who you are, how you approach life, and how you interact with others.

Annemie : And if you approach other people who have been dealt a hard time by life, what advice could you give them?

Eve : Anything is possible, nothing is impossible. And yes, stay true to yourself. What's important to you? Go for it.

Annemie : That very special story you told, about how you ended up in that care. You're still responsible for that care. Should we continue to do so? Or is it sometimes not right to be able to say, "This is where my responsibility ends."

Eve : Yeah, well, technically speaking, it's never been my responsibility. And actually, it still isn't. But there are no solutions either. Meanwhile, we've shaped our lives this way; we've found balance in it. For now, anyway, because you never know what the future holds. But even if tomorrow I think, "I can't handle this anymore," there's simply no solution.

Our society simply doesn't have an answer to that. I once looked into it all, and for example, he's too good to be in an institution. There are long waiting lists there too, by the way, but he doesn't fit in there because he has a life that's very valuable to him. But he's also not well enough to live alone, because he needs support for that. So we're at an impasse there; society doesn't have an answer to that. In terms of support as well. And I think that's a huge gap right now.

Annemie : Yes, Eve, you're still young. Life will still have a lot in store for you. Let's hope only good things. Tell me, why are you telling this story?

Eve : Gosh, I told you, I've never told this story before.

Annemie : No, you don't talk about that easily?

Eve : No, I think a lot of people will be shocked by this. I do think it's important to tell them. If there's a girl or boy out there who's been accepted and they think, "I want to go to Stanford," or somewhere else, I want them to think, "I can't do that because..." But how? I can do it, but how am I going to do it?

That was an important reframe for me, not from "I can't do it," but from how am I going to do it? I'll make it happen. And I hope I can inspire someone with that.

Annemie : You're actually quite a role model, aren't you? In a way, you're very inspiring to people who are struggling. You can grow from that.

Eve : Yes. It can be awful, you know, I know how hard it can be. And I'm the first to understand that. But within every misery lies a tremendous amount of growth potential. And ultimately, it's those scars that shape us, but they don't make us. They don't define us; it's what we do with them.

Annemie : I think that's a fantastic message.

Eve : Thank you!

Annemie : Thank you Eve, very strong.