Listen to the podcast here: https://mariemero.podbean.com/e/sabrina-over-het-o...
Annemie : Hello Sabrina
Sabrina : Hello Annemie
Annemie : Sabrina, you were 35 when your life changed completely, you became a widow.
Sabrina : A Young Widow
Annemie : Yes, we often associate a widow with older people. But there are also younger people who lose their partner.
Sabrina : Yes, a lot of young people.
Annemie : What happened?
Sabrina : My partner passed away when I was 35.
Annemie : Abruptly?
Sabrina : About suicide.
Annemie : Yes, that is very intense.
Sabrina : Yes, indeed.
Annemie : You have a child, how old was he/she?
Sabrina : He was almost seven then.
Annemie : Yes, and what is it then, as a young woman in a young family, that really strikes like lightning?
Sabrina : You said it yourself, it's like lightning striking. Your life stops, and you have to pick yourself up and try to make something of it again. While everything is different, nothing has stayed the same.
Annemie : And also, death suddenly knocking on the door. Do you actually remember anything from that first period?
Sabrina : Autopilot, that's immediately on autopilot.
Annemie : You just switch to another mode?
Sabrina : Yes, I can't put it any other way. You switch to an automatic mechanism like breathing. Yes, that's something that comes naturally and is very basic, but it does help you move forward.
Annemie : It's a survival mechanism?
Sabrina : Yes, indeed
Annemie : You keep functioning, you keep breathing, you keep caring for your child?
Sabrina : Yes, you should, you definitely keep doing that. That also helps you move forward.
Annemie : A suicide as well, an extra painful aspect.
Sabrina : Absolutely, especially when you read in the suicide note that he struggled for twenty years with an insatiable rage in his mind. And that he didn't want it anymore, that he wanted it to stop. And then I thought, but why didn't I ever know that?
I might have been able to help. I could have done other things, called on other people, gotten help, help... But yeah, it really came out of the blue.
Annemie : But you do refer to that letter, which means that you read things in that letter that you actually didn't know.
Sabrina : No, indeed, never knew it was that much. Never knew.
Annemie : Yes, I can imagine that creates an extra element to hear that the person you lived with is something...
Sabrina : Yes, there was an extra dimension behind it, which I had no idea was so deeply rooted and had been present for so long. And what does that do to me, or what did it do to me? Yes, it's overwhelming, that disbelief of "this can't be, what is this?" Yes, complete disbelief, incomprehensible. That I didn't see that, that I never knew that, that I wasn't allowed to know that.
Yes, so as not to burden me or our family with his backpack, with what was going on in his head.
Annemie : I can imagine, a death in general, under any circumstances. You go through a whole range of emotions: incomprehension, anger... You question yourself; you also have to survive. That period of mourning, that initial period, how long does it last?
Sabrina : Gosh, that first period was really raw. And I mean raw with ouch. So grief is raw.
Annemie : Raw with ouch is very painful.
Sabrina : Yeah, that's really that lightning bolt, that disbelief
Annemie : Your house is broken
Sabrina : Yes, right down to the foundations. That's very raw, because you know you're going to have to rebuild everything and that nothing will ever be the same again.
And at the time, you don't realize it, do you? It's only afterward that you can think about it more. And also, you just do what you want, and you don't know if you're doing the right thing.
You try and you fall back, and you hit your head against the wall, but you keep going. I always chose to keep going; quitting wasn't an option.
Annemie : Maybe carrying on is just a way to survive.
Sabrina : Yeah, that was automatic, like breathing, that was just “keep going.”
Annemie : And that first raw, mourning, if I may call it that? When will there be a little more peace in that?
Sabrina : Well, you have the raw part, and then the slightly less raw part, and then you're like, "Okay, I'll manage." That first raw part, a year.
Annemie : That first raw part is just surviving for a year.
Sabrina : Yeah, it's just survival, and I wouldn't really put a year on it. It's different for everyone.
Annemie : Yes, time does help. It does help that it takes a year, and then another year.
Sabrina : Absolutely, time doesn't heal everything, but it does heal a lot. Because when I meet someone now, a young widow or widower, we often say, wait. Time, it will get better. And that's indeed true. Time makes those sharp, raw edges a little less sharp. It makes them a little rounder, a little less noticeable.
But it remains, it's still there, you know. You carry that backpack with you, you can't get it out. And maybe that's a good thing, because it's a part of your life. It's also what happened that makes you a different person. That's something you have to work with.
Annemie : And are you still the same Sabrina?
Sabrina : No.
Annemie : You've become someone else.
Sabrina : Yes, it's definitely changed quite a bit. Of course, some things will stay the same, but I now live more from my gut. I dare to listen to my gut now, and I used to be more reasoned.
And now, I try to compare the choices I make in life with my gut. If my gut tells me "it's right," I think, yes, I'll jump. And that's rare; yes, I haven't had a bad experience with it. It feels good to follow my gut.
Annemie : How many years have passed since then?
Sabrina : Almost 12.
Annemie : 12 years. Could it be that it's all finally come to terms with it?
Sabrina : No, no.
Annemie : Is that work ever finished?
Sabrina : I wouldn't dare say: I can only speak for myself. Is it ever finished, yes. But there are always things: a song on the radio, a show on TV, a sentence you hear. That always catapults you back a bit, that there's always a connection with what happened. So, finding a place, yes, processing, yes. But it's never closed. There's always—you carry that with you for the rest of your life.
That's in your backpack, and that's what comes back out. And that's okay, that's okay.
Annemie : I already mentioned it earlier, losing a partner—we strongly associate that with a certain age. For a young woman like you, 35, becoming a widow. We don't really know how to deal with that.
Sabrina : Yes, that is, it's a bit of a taboo.
Annemie : Is that true, did you experience it that way?
Sabrina : Well, maybe not taboo, but people don't really know what to say. How to deal with that . With death in general.
Annemie : Is that so?
Sabrina : I think that's difficult in our society. Grief, mourning, death. It's always hard to talk about that. What do you say to someone you're visiting whose husband has just passed away?
And suppose that lady starts crying, what do we do then? That seems like something like that, yeah...
Annemie : Did you experience that yourself? That people were a bit afraid of the situation? That they weren't sure or didn't dare approach you?
Sabrina : Yes, indeed. That's always something special, isn't it? You were such an odd duck, weren't you? It's something that doesn't happen very often. Or at least, it doesn't seem to. There are no reports about it, no books written about it, so people don't know about it.
And then suddenly they come into contact with someone whose husband has passed away, oh dear, sorry. Different topic.
Annemie : Yes, and they sometimes think that by going around and not talking about it, they'll be able to spare you. And maybe even spare themselves.
Sabrina : I don't doubt it's well-intentioned, it's definitely well-intentioned. But sometimes it's also good to talk about it. And then, yes, avoiding it. Sometimes it's nice to be able to tell your story several times.
And that is also good for the processing.
Annemie : What helped you the most? Especially in those first difficult years. What did you enjoy? Can you still remember it? What reactions or approach worked best for you?
Sabrina : For example, people bringing you a bowl of soup, or people stopping by just to keep you company. Very ordinary things, you know, nothing big or special. Very everyday things.
Annemie : So what you just said, that they come, that they are there for you.
Sabrina : Yes, and just act normal. Life goes on, right? Act normal. And if we want to talk about it, let's do that. Then you really shouldn't say much, you just have to listen. That was the most comforting thing, being able to tell your story. You shouldn't think, "Oh, what should I say, and if she starts crying, what should I do?" No, let that go.
Annemie : People often think they have to help, or provide answers, or offer solutions. But that's not the point.
Sabrina : No, it's just about being there and listening. Just being present, that's incredibly comforting.
Annemie : Yes, that's not so difficult in itself, but I think we have to get rid of the idea that we can help or offer solutions in such situations.
Sabrina : No, that's not necessary, because there's no solution for that. You can't help, but you can by being there.
Annemie : You were a young widow, also a young mother. How do you explain something like that to your child?
Sabrina : Gosh, yes, that is very difficult.
Annemie : One day it's there, and the next day it's gone.
Sabrina : Yes, that's right. That's a terrible thing to have to do, isn't it? Yes, "Dad had a bug in his head." Yes, I don't even remember how I said that back then. You say Dad was a bit sick in his head. Come on, that sounds very negative now, the word "sick"; but there's something in your head, but something in your head is going off track. Something isn't working the way it's supposed to.
Annemie : Yes, and were you angry with him?
Sabrina : Angry, uh. Yeah, of course. You go through all the feelings of grief again. Then I think about that pattern of grief, which remains.
Annemie : Yes, that remains. In the beginning, not wanting to know, ignoring it, hoping you'll wake up and it won't have happened. Being angry.
Sabrina : Yes, I've often thought, "He'll be back with his book bag soon," or "I'm in the bathroom, oh, I thought I saw him in the mirror." Then you think, I'm going crazy. So that does very strange things to you.
Annemie : Yes, what you're telling me now is something very universal. But sometimes you don't know because it's rarely talked about.
Sabrina : Yes, that's a mirage, an illusion. But that's the longing for it, and then it becomes completely real. That's very strange, very strange, very shocking. Suddenly it's in a dream, and then it's gone. Very strange. That was especially the case in the beginning.
After that, things become more normal again, and you can start living again.
Annemie : You've done something truly special, actually, you've started working with that young widowhood. You must have felt somehow, "I'm not alone in this." Even though you were alone. How did the idea come about to find others in the same situation?
Sabrina : Quite by chance, through Facebook, I came into contact with fellow sufferers, including young widows.
Annemie : Is that what you went looking for?
Sabrina : No, I don't remember exactly how that happened. But suddenly, yes, there was a group somewhere, and at some point... How can I put it, you seek connection with a group because you need it at that moment.
Annemie : Also young widows.
Sabrina : Absolutely. Young widows, so in their 20s and 30s. So peers. And we had a date. We'd meet up somewhere for a bite to eat, to get to know each other better. And suddenly we had the idea, what if we connect with each other, share our connection, and put it in a Facebook group? Where other people can also find recognition, understanding, comfort, and a kind of inspiration. Like, "It gets better, trust time, it gets better."
And then we made a group.
Annemie : A Facebook group?
Sabrina : Yes, a Facebook group. A closed Facebook group. And now, many years later, we have almost 900 members.
Annemie : That's a lot.
Sabrina : Yeah, that's a lot and not much.
Annemie : But it does show that there were still many people who felt the need for recognition and identification.
Sabrina : Yes, and they want to read, "Oh, it's like that with you too."
Annemie : That's reassuring, isn't it?
Sabrina : Yes, like, "I'm not going crazy, that's normal." I just need to give it some time, trust that it's the way it is, and then it will get better.
Annemie : Actually, because of your grief, you started doing very constructive things.
Sabrina : Yes, because at one point my son also said, "Mom, I'm the only child in the world without a daddy."
Annemie : Oh
Sabrina : And I was like, "Oh, that's not true," but how can I make him understand that?
So, based on our connections with those other widows, and those other children, we essentially formed a group. Initially, we did some really fun things together, and we even brought the children together. And I noticed that was a very comforting thought for my son.
Annemie : "I'm not alone"
Sabrina : Voila, and there are still many in Flanders, for whom it also happened. A thought of, "Okay, I'm not alone. It's also there, and there, and there!" And with that, I also say, that's a lot, but not much. Because that's just the tip of the iceberg; who says everyone finds us?
Or if there is a need for that...
Annemie : Or searches on Facebook.
Sabrina : Yes, it is without obligation.
Annemie : But in a sense, you've become a grief and sadness expert. Based on your personal experience.
Sabrina : Yeah, gosh, yeah. A real expert by experience, if you want to call it that.
Annemie : Definitely an expert by experience, with a great deal of wisdom gained from experience with grief and loss.
Sabrina : Because you've experienced it yourself. I wouldn't put it that way, but it's true, because I've experienced it myself.
Annemie : Do you have any plans to do something with that?
Sabrina : Yes, the plans are pretty concrete, but I just need to find the time to implement them. I'd love to become a speaker at funerals because I love working with language. I'm a linguist by training, and I currently teach Dutch to non-native speakers, so I enjoy working with language. And I've noticed that language can also be very comforting.
Annemie : Yes, words.
Sabrina : Words, lyrics, not just music, but also the song or a poem. But also just people talking to you. Words can be very comforting. So I'd love to offer other people something comforting from my experience. For example, writing a beautiful text, reading it aloud in an appropriate way, and then giving it to others so they can reread it.
Conducting a funeral in an appropriate manner.
Annemie : That is very valuable.
Sabrina : Yes, I'd love to. Whether it works emotionally, I don't know. Because you just asked about "has it really taken hold?" Yes. But if you're back at a funeral, I don't know what's going to happen to me. If it works, if it doesn't, I don't know, but I'd like to try.
Annemie : Sabrina, from the bottom of my heart, I think you should do this. Yes, because I think, when I see you sitting here like this, there's something very wise and comforting about you. You have the gift of the gab, and you radiate comfort and gentleness, and I think you would do it very well.
Sabrina : Yes, I think so, and I'd love to. And above all, I'm convinced that words can have so much meaning. Especially if you can refer back to them later.
And I notice, my husband's funeral was very simple but very beautiful. Beautiful music, beautiful lyrics, and I'm very happy that we did it that way. I insisted on saying something myself, choosing the music myself, and helping shape the lyrics myself. I'm very happy about that, and that was also a kind of farewell. It was a personal farewell, and I think that when I put my soul into it. Well, when I do something, I put my soul into it.
And if you can help those people make that funeral so beautiful, with the right music and the right words, I think that's a beautiful gift from the survivors to the deceased.
Annemie : Yes, and I even believe, and it's been proven, that a beautiful farewell is also a helpful tool in the grieving process. So if that's done well, you actually get a wonderful stepping stone to start your grieving process properly.
Sabrina : Yes absolutely, I completely agree.
Annemie : Sabrina, I especially wish that others around you will take that step.
Sabrina : Yeah, yeah, but sooner or later I'll do it. But I'm not one of those... Yeah, I sometimes find it hard to step out of my comfort zone and do something I wouldn't normally do. It's so completely different, being self-employed, and can I make a living from that? But that's more of a practical matter. But my gut tells me it'll be fine.
Annemie : Yes, and just now I learned to follow my feelings because that is a good advisor.
Sabrina : Yes, so I'm going to do that. It's just a matter of waiting for the right moment.
Annemie : Yes, and my gut tells me, Sabrina, go for it. Because you're going to do it incredibly well.
Sabrina : Thank you Annemie.
Annemie : Thank you for this conversation.
Sabrina : You're welcome.